I hesitate writing this entry, because no good can come of it. But I want you to grasp the new reality.
This is mail that just came across the OpenSolaris Security list:
On 11/03/10 20:07, Pete Chan wrote: > Hello. Does any one know if Oracle has any plans in incorporating SSH > HPN in the new release of Solaris? Oracle's plans for features in future releases of Solaris are unlikely to be communicated here. Please contact Oracle via your normal support/sales channels. -- Darren J Moffat
WOW! Talk about slamming the door on the fingers. Not even the courtesy of a BS response like “Good idea” or “Unlikely due to its current state” or something…. just slams the door. I’m amazed and saddened.
I’m not, Oracle/Sun sucks balls… there is no other way to say it
On the flip side, I’m glad he did. I’d rather he be blunt and honest than give some fluff answer that makes people think we still might get something useful out of Oracle corp… sort of like the entire story around opensolaris. Speaking of which, have we EVER gotten an OFFICIAL response from them? I remember the leaked memo, I don’t remember any statements.
Up front, I don’t work for Oracle and don’t always agree with their heavy handed actions, but…
Oracle is a business. They have business objectives (including to make money). To remain competitive, it is generally good business practice not to tell everyone what their future business objectives are so that someone else could beat them to the punch. If everyone knew about the iPod or iPhone before Apple released them, things might have been different there.
Oracle business objectives is more of “service” model and a “multiple version (basic and premium)” model. They are in some ways working how Red Hat does in offering services for a product, but they take it a little further. It’s like MS with its different flavors of Office with the more features, the more it cost.
If part of the work on Solaris is to develop a needed feature that no one is interested enough or able to develop openly, then shouldn’t someone pay (sponsor) the development who wants it but is unable to do so themselves? Not everyone is a crack developer or have them in their company. I see this as what Oracle is doing at this time.
Oracle is not actively funding work on open source but close source work where they get return on investment or work in areas that are needed (based on service contract needs or new features making it more valuable to someone). It’s giving direction to a somewhat chaotic open environment.
Oracle (Sun) spent a lot of money on it previously and now needs to start being able to support it. Servers (to host source) don’t grow on trees. Power to keep those servers running doesn’t come out of no where. Space to host those server requires a building to house them in…get my point?
I guess that’s what happens when you ask about future plans for Solaris (commercial product) in an OpenSolaris (free software) mailing list, isn’t it?
Ben, I follow your blog for a while so I know you have good things to say. But if I didn’t know any better I would say this post is just trolling/provocation.
On the other hand I understand that sometimes one needs to take a (not always clear) example to demonstrate a general nuisance. It’s not always easy to find a perfect example to get a point across
This is exactly the reason that drove me away from the opensolaris community in the first place. OpenSolaris was never open, and most of the design / development went on behind closed doors. IMHO Solaris is dead, and I don’t see a rosy future for it. I talk to more and more people who are canning Solaris in favor of Linux, and the way Oracle interacts with the community will further kill it off. I can’t stand Oracle, and it’s a bit of a bummer to see Solaris dieing a slow agonizing death.
There is a big difference in corporate culture between oracle and the old Sun.
“With Oracle it doesn’t have to make sense, it just has to make money.”
~James Gosling
C’mon Ben
It’s not a slap in the fingers. It’s just we people try hard to ignore the facts we don’t like. The owner and management and policy have changed. Doors which used to be open are now closed. We know that, if we insist in triying to enter without invitation, we will hit the closed door with our head.
Read again, Darren just said the truth.
On the other side I have to say that Solaris developers, like Glynn, Darren, Alan, Shawn, Dave Miner and others were on the opensolaris.org forums on monday and where quite quick to answer questions and clarify the news. Actually the ones I named were all on single thread.
So even with the change of management there are still friends behind the doors.
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.
Philip K. Dick
So let’s get the thing go around, and find ways for the community to be a reality for Oracle.
regards
- Pablo
> So let’s get the thing go around, and find ways for the community to be a reality for Oracle.
I am totally amazed you don’t get it. Just forget it, Pablo. Oracle doesn’t want a community getting in the way of making money.
Every attempt to behave like a community will result in arrogant answers, obstructive behaviour, rudeness when Oracle actually makes a mistake and is forced to correct it, and ultimately legal action if what you attempt gets in the way of their plans.
Oracle may not be mad, but they are bad and dangerous to know. Go find something else to use, this technology just isn’t worth the pain or the risk.
. OpenSolaris was never open, and most of the design / development went on behind closed doors.
Ryan, that simply isn’t true. The source code was freely available, people had direct access to engineers on the mailing lists (and still do), and external contributions were putback regularly. At the time, things that were going to be implemented were often designed and discussed on public mailing lists.
Solaris is more than just a kernel — it’s an operating system.
While the code for more recent builds of the kernel may not be available, many other projects (such as pkg(5), JSD/GNOME, and others) are still open for external contributors (who have direct commit access).
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Guys,
a little reality check:
short of FreeBSD (via ports) there is no single open OS that supports HPN SSH.
In general users that are asking for it are generally being ignored by the very communities we’re part of. The patches never made it to upstream and daily I get blog hits on a post that only explains why it never made it’s way to ubuntu.
My heart is crying “I want SUN back”, but my brain tells me: Why the fuzz…